17-05-2018, 05:07 PM
17-05-2018, 06:07 PM
17-05-2018, 06:32 PM
(17-05-2018, 06:07 PM)VK2CSW Wrote: [ -> ]Dunno, but maybe this has something to do with it...
http://vkradioamateurs.org/about/
Just Sayin'
Colin
You might be right BUT have the other founding members of RASA also been excommunicated ? If not, why not (assuming this is the reason) ??
I read through most of the docs available via the above link and it seems unfair to expunge a member without disclosing the context of the supporting reasons eg with absolute detailed specifics and documentation in support.
Maybe we will get the whole story at some future time.
Doug
17-05-2018, 06:47 PM
Hey Doug,
I agree that there should be transparency, without doubt.
Although looking at the head count in the picture and then reading this from VK2CA's twitter account:
"The Wireless Institute of Australia has taken the unprecedented step of trying to expel me (and 4 others) from its membership based on trumped up charges and hearsay with no evidence supplied so that I may defend myself. "
It would seem that it is possible the "4 others" are the same people in the image.
I would think there would be some privacy and legal issues with the WIA commenting publicly, so I guess I won't be holding my breath for a 'full and frank public disclosure'.
I agree that there should be transparency, without doubt.
Although looking at the head count in the picture and then reading this from VK2CA's twitter account:
"The Wireless Institute of Australia has taken the unprecedented step of trying to expel me (and 4 others) from its membership based on trumped up charges and hearsay with no evidence supplied so that I may defend myself. "
It would seem that it is possible the "4 others" are the same people in the image.
I would think there would be some privacy and legal issues with the WIA commenting publicly, so I guess I won't be holding my breath for a 'full and frank public disclosure'.
17-05-2018, 07:30 PM
17-05-2018, 07:37 PM
The WIA AGM is happening on the Gold Coast this weekend. I wonder if this matter will surface then ? I am attending and will keep the ears on 'high sensitivity' !
I have been a WIA member since about 1963 - barring a 10 year break due to work conflicts - and I can't recall ever hearing about member expulsions before. Feathers must really have been 'rustled' to have it happen now.
Personally, I suggest that RASA and the WIA can co-exist even if it does divide the attention from ACMA to the two bodies, and also think that it is probably worthwhile being involved in (/members of) both provided the organisations address matters of interest and importance to the Australian Radio Amateur. Of course, one would hope they are both pushing for identical outcomes.
In my brief reading of the RASA docs & web pages, I can only recall the WIA even being mentioned once. Maybe I missed it on other pages but I don't routinely use Facebook (or Twitter - never) so am unlikely to have seen anything that has been posted there.
I have been a WIA member since about 1963 - barring a 10 year break due to work conflicts - and I can't recall ever hearing about member expulsions before. Feathers must really have been 'rustled' to have it happen now.
Personally, I suggest that RASA and the WIA can co-exist even if it does divide the attention from ACMA to the two bodies, and also think that it is probably worthwhile being involved in (/members of) both provided the organisations address matters of interest and importance to the Australian Radio Amateur. Of course, one would hope they are both pushing for identical outcomes.
In my brief reading of the RASA docs & web pages, I can only recall the WIA even being mentioned once. Maybe I missed it on other pages but I don't routinely use Facebook (or Twitter - never) so am unlikely to have seen anything that has been posted there.
18-05-2018, 08:32 AM
and I can't recall ever hearing about member expulsions before.
I can think of a couple who should have been chucked out for their on-air behaviour, but weren't
If there is white anting of the WIA still going on, that is a pity.
The WIA could be giving away $100 notes and some will never join or support it because of past grievances, which is something not unusual. The RSGB & ARRL have the same issue and last I read only 20-something percent of licensed amateurs in their respective countries are members.
Agree.
I can think of a couple who should have been chucked out for their on-air behaviour, but weren't
If there is white anting of the WIA still going on, that is a pity.
The WIA could be giving away $100 notes and some will never join or support it because of past grievances, which is something not unusual. The RSGB & ARRL have the same issue and last I read only 20-something percent of licensed amateurs in their respective countries are members.
Quote:Personally, I suggest that RASA and the WIA can co-exist even if it does divide the attention from ACMA to the two bodies, and also think that it is probably worthwhile being involved in (/members of) both provided the organisations address matters of interest and importance to the Australian Radio Amateur. Of course, one would hope they are both pushing for identical outcomes.
Agree.
18-05-2018, 11:00 AM
An update (seems no-one has been expelled - yet):
https://www.wia.org.au/newsevents/news/2.../index.php
https://www.wia.org.au/newsevents/news/2.../index.php
18-05-2018, 04:11 PM
I guess it's fair enough to not advise anyone of a decision if the decision is yet to be made...
20-05-2018, 08:01 AM
There was a brief mention of this at the WIA AGM as a result of a question from the audience.
A brief rundown of RASA and its predecessor, the WIA Reform Group, was provided and followed by a statement that the Board was considering the matter but that nothing was final "at this stage" (My comment : despite the communications made public by VK2CA ?).
More to come on this in due course.
A brief rundown of RASA and its predecessor, the WIA Reform Group, was provided and followed by a statement that the Board was considering the matter but that nothing was final "at this stage" (My comment : despite the communications made public by VK2CA ?).
More to come on this in due course.
VK3QI
21-05-2018, 12:18 PM
OPINION
The only notification that the WIA Board has made to this stage is that one or more unidentified persons have been considered for suspension - see WIA NEWS item 16/05/18. This process is as it should have been, according to the WIA Constitution.
The only way these persons have been identified is by the publishing of confidential documentation on the particular website mentioned, by one of those persons.
If that information had not been published, the general WIA membership would not have known those details and claimed reputations would not, to this stage, have been brought into question.
This is typical of what tends to happen now-a-days with social media and the Internet, where people are impatient and expect instant action.
Hopefully the matter can be resolved in the future without any further outbursts by the parties concerned.
Cheers
Peter VK3QI
The only notification that the WIA Board has made to this stage is that one or more unidentified persons have been considered for suspension - see WIA NEWS item 16/05/18. This process is as it should have been, according to the WIA Constitution.
The only way these persons have been identified is by the publishing of confidential documentation on the particular website mentioned, by one of those persons.
If that information had not been published, the general WIA membership would not have known those details and claimed reputations would not, to this stage, have been brought into question.
This is typical of what tends to happen now-a-days with social media and the Internet, where people are impatient and expect instant action.
Hopefully the matter can be resolved in the future without any further outbursts by the parties concerned.
Cheers
Peter VK3QI
VK3HZ
23-05-2018, 12:38 PM
The other thing to note is that it's probably not the Board that has initiated this. As the Release says:
"The Board of the Wireless Institute of Australia has received a request from four members of the institute to consider expulsion proceedings against one or more members in terms of clause 5.7 of the WIA Constitution"
So, it's most likely 4 other ordinary members who have started it all. The Board is simply following due process.
Regards,
Dave
"The Board of the Wireless Institute of Australia has received a request from four members of the institute to consider expulsion proceedings against one or more members in terms of clause 5.7 of the WIA Constitution"
So, it's most likely 4 other ordinary members who have started it all. The Board is simply following due process.
Regards,
Dave
VK3QI
23-05-2018, 02:00 PM
Absolutely Dave.
The WIA Constitution clearly spells out the due process to be followed in the expulsion of a member.
The process initially involves confidentiality, which was not followed.
By publishing a copy of the initial letter sent to him from the WIA Secretary dated 14/05/2018, he has brought the matter out into the open himself (and the implications on his reputation) as well as infringing the rights of the WIA - the end of the initial letter is unequivocal:
“This document is private and intended solely for the use of the person to whom it addressed. It may contain material which is privileged or confidential. This document should not be copied or distributed without prior written approval.”
The WIA on the other hand has acted appropriately in simply announcing in its press release of 16 May 2018, “……. to consider expulsion proceedings against one or more members in terms of clause 5.7 of the WIA Constitution…….”
What I find interesting about the whole issue of due process, is that now we know that the potential expellees are the leaders of the RASA organisation. That organisation has published on its website, its own Rules of Association for Disciplinary Action (sections 19 to 24) which are similar to those of the WIA.
If the RASA wants to be seen as a viable alternative to the WIA then they would surely require any disciplinary action on their behalf, to follow similar due process and not be aired publically for all to see and comment upon.
Also one of their stated policies is: "Proper copyright and reference laws or standards should be observed when posting". Clearly this has not been followed in this case.
Cheers
Peter VK3QI
The WIA Constitution clearly spells out the due process to be followed in the expulsion of a member.
The process initially involves confidentiality, which was not followed.
By publishing a copy of the initial letter sent to him from the WIA Secretary dated 14/05/2018, he has brought the matter out into the open himself (and the implications on his reputation) as well as infringing the rights of the WIA - the end of the initial letter is unequivocal:
“This document is private and intended solely for the use of the person to whom it addressed. It may contain material which is privileged or confidential. This document should not be copied or distributed without prior written approval.”
The WIA on the other hand has acted appropriately in simply announcing in its press release of 16 May 2018, “……. to consider expulsion proceedings against one or more members in terms of clause 5.7 of the WIA Constitution…….”
What I find interesting about the whole issue of due process, is that now we know that the potential expellees are the leaders of the RASA organisation. That organisation has published on its website, its own Rules of Association for Disciplinary Action (sections 19 to 24) which are similar to those of the WIA.
If the RASA wants to be seen as a viable alternative to the WIA then they would surely require any disciplinary action on their behalf, to follow similar due process and not be aired publically for all to see and comment upon.
Also one of their stated policies is: "Proper copyright and reference laws or standards should be observed when posting". Clearly this has not been followed in this case.
Cheers
Peter VK3QI
23-05-2018, 07:06 PM
Extract from an email received today...
"
Many of you will have read with concern reports regarding the "expulsion" of members from the WIA.
In the history of the WIA, to the board's knowledge, no one has been expelled.
The WIA received a petition from several members seeking the removal of individuals from the WIA under clause 5.7 of its Constitution.
The challenge for the WIA when responding to a petition of this nature is that it relates to a conflict between core values of individual members.
The board met on the 16th of May to consider this matter. The board has made no decision with respect to the petition. Instead, the board has adjourned the discussion.
Any alternative remedy to the petition before the board must be aligned with the spirit of amateur radio and the Radio Amateur's Code.
Consistent with the commitment to transparency the board will keep members informed of the progress of this matter to the extent possible without offending the privacy of those involved.
Can you please forward this on to your club members to let them know.
73, Justin, VK7TW
President
Wireless Institute of Australia
"
"
Many of you will have read with concern reports regarding the "expulsion" of members from the WIA.
In the history of the WIA, to the board's knowledge, no one has been expelled.
The WIA received a petition from several members seeking the removal of individuals from the WIA under clause 5.7 of its Constitution.
The challenge for the WIA when responding to a petition of this nature is that it relates to a conflict between core values of individual members.
The board met on the 16th of May to consider this matter. The board has made no decision with respect to the petition. Instead, the board has adjourned the discussion.
Any alternative remedy to the petition before the board must be aligned with the spirit of amateur radio and the Radio Amateur's Code.
Consistent with the commitment to transparency the board will keep members informed of the progress of this matter to the extent possible without offending the privacy of those involved.
Can you please forward this on to your club members to let them know.
73, Justin, VK7TW
President
Wireless Institute of Australia
"
VK3QI
23-05-2018, 08:24 PM
"Consistent with the commitment to transparency the board will keep members informed of the progress of this matter to the extent possible without offending the privacy of those involved."
Quite rightly so. It is a great pity that the other party didn't keep the matter private as well.
Cheers
Peter VK3QI
"Consistent with the commitment to transparency the board will keep members informed of the progress of this matter to the extent possible without offending the privacy of those involved."
Quite rightly so. It is a great pity that the other party didn't keep the matter private as well.
Cheers
Peter VK3QI
Quite rightly so. It is a great pity that the other party didn't keep the matter private as well.
Cheers
Peter VK3QI
"Consistent with the commitment to transparency the board will keep members informed of the progress of this matter to the extent possible without offending the privacy of those involved."
Quite rightly so. It is a great pity that the other party didn't keep the matter private as well.
Cheers
Peter VK3QI
28-05-2018, 01:45 PM
(17-05-2018, 07:37 PM)VK4ADC Wrote: [ -> ]Personally, I suggest that RASA and the WIA can co-exist even if it does divide the attention from ACMA to the two bodies, and also think that it is probably worthwhile being involved in (/members of) both provided the organisations address matters of interest and importance to the Australian Radio Amateur. Of course, one would hope they are both pushing for identical outcomes.
I agree that RASA and WIA can coexist, and I think that RASA might even help to refocus the WIA into acting more in the interests of its members and in raising the profile of Amateur Radio. The WIA has got itself into the position between a rock and a hard place where it carries out some of the admin work that ACMA should really be doing, and is finding it hard to cover expenses.
If we look at the recent VHF LB spectrum allocations that Irish Radio Amateurs (IRTS) have managed to obtain for themselves, the new legislation in the US that allows amateurs to erect effective antennas even in the case of restricted housing contracts, and the success of the NZART in achieving a 1kW limit (and 25W EIRP for 630m), it becomes apparent that Amateur Radio is regarded as a much lower priority in Australia, and is not treated with the same respect by government. (and that was a long sentence) I don't know if that's because ACMA is much less hands on than previous authorities because of the WIA role, or for other reasons.
29-05-2018, 01:16 PM
(28-05-2018, 01:45 PM)VK4AQJ Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know if that's because ACMA is much less hands on than previous authorities because of the WIA role, or for other reasons.
More likely because of the "Nanny" mentality in this country or the fact that nobody in authority has the fortitude to make a decision and stand by it unless they have spent 10,000 hours in umpteen committees.
The things you mention show that other countries are far more progressive than here at the moment.
26-06-2018, 07:07 AM
A small extract from an extensive email, as received today, to WIA members contained the following:
The WIA Board in May issued notices of Petition for Expulsion to several members under Clause 5.7 of the WIA Constitution. This clause empowers the board to expel a member whose conduct is deemed contrary to “the best interests of the WIA”. Despite publicity to the contrary, no board decision to expel any member had been taken at that time.
This constitutional action was initiated when a concerned group of members jointly petitioned the WIA Board in April 2018 to expel certain other members citing conduct they believed would trigger expulsion under Clause 5.7. The WIA Board has a responsibility to consider and act on such a petition under the provisions of the WIA Constitution.
The WIA Board, following extensive deliberations, decided to withdraw the notices of Petition for Expulsion and cease action on the aforementioned members’ petition i.e. no member has been expelled.
There was a lot more detail in the email and, if you are a WIA member, you will be able to read the background to the decision in your own email copy.
Posted in the interest of spreading good news - for a change.
The WIA Board in May issued notices of Petition for Expulsion to several members under Clause 5.7 of the WIA Constitution. This clause empowers the board to expel a member whose conduct is deemed contrary to “the best interests of the WIA”. Despite publicity to the contrary, no board decision to expel any member had been taken at that time.
This constitutional action was initiated when a concerned group of members jointly petitioned the WIA Board in April 2018 to expel certain other members citing conduct they believed would trigger expulsion under Clause 5.7. The WIA Board has a responsibility to consider and act on such a petition under the provisions of the WIA Constitution.
The WIA Board, following extensive deliberations, decided to withdraw the notices of Petition for Expulsion and cease action on the aforementioned members’ petition i.e. no member has been expelled.
There was a lot more detail in the email and, if you are a WIA member, you will be able to read the background to the decision in your own email copy.
Posted in the interest of spreading good news - for a change.
01-08-2018, 04:09 PM
A very wise decision in the interest of freedom of speech.